Category: philosophy/religion topics
While reading through the boards, I've noticed that certain users seem to have a major problem with Christianity: its teachings, and its spread around the world. What I want to know is why? The teachings of this religion promote love and respect for others, as well as help for those less fortunate and an awareness of the problems of the world. I'll admit that we're not all perfect. We Catholics will inflicted the Spanish Inquisition on the world, and are still reeling from the sexual abuse scandals involving parish priests. And some other Christians can be very bigotted and judgemental of other groups and religions. But overall, we've done a lot of good. We've estableshed schools, hospitals, and other helpfull places around the world. Biblical ideas have been important in shaping laws and ethics. We've unified many countries and have some produced some of the great art, music, and literature of the centuries. So why are you so against Christianity. I really am interested to know the reasons.
Why you need only look at the horrific crimes against humanity aided and abetted by christianity.E.G the christian church alerted Nazi's to jews hiding in poland and elsewhere...the Catholic church recently paid victims of child sex abuse,carried out by priests ect, to keep quiet, while they moved these paedophiles around the country to avoid the scandal of admitting their church was choc full of perverts!
I dislike how christianity distorts and warps the minds of those who practise it,the very ethos of the religion seems to turn them into nasty, ignorant, self righteous, eejits who will NOT allow us free thinking heathens to live in peace....they assume as they believe so should every living soul that is a form of brainwashing I cannot condone...
But certainly those are reservations against the church (mostly catholic) not objections to the religion itself. Crimes will sadly alwas be committed in the name of something or other so the dephiling of the idiology of Christianity by those who use it as a shield or excuse for their criminal activities should not create such strong dislike towards the religion itself. And those following this religion have, as stated above, done a lot of good and the point of the religion is to help others, feed the poor etc. Not that those reservations are not justifiable I just think too many people only take the negative aspects of Christianity into consideration when they rant against it. The idiology behind it is peaceful and beautiful and people should really live by it Christian or not, it would create a more peaceful society for sure, but forms of any religion that take over your mind and take away your individual free thoughts, I would object to those myself.
cheers
-B
the bible has more violence than a Wilbur Smith novel and not once! does the bible advocate self will and freedom of thought...because once you find the courage to think and believe in yourself, you are truly free,and using the crutch of religion is irrelevent....
thank you, goblin. My question is this. Why do you need religion to say, these people need help, we should do it. Why do you need a god to tell you, don't kill, help others. You don't! Religion as a way of life is built on the subgeigation of a group to obey a supreme being. What's the point. Everyone is entitled to their free throughts.
Fabulous your right its all about control the very words the meek shall inherit the earth...dictate that in order to have it all, you must surrender yourself completely,once pride is lost self esteem isn't far behind...some extremly weak individuals need to be controlled they need that security to feel safe and whole,its a tragedy that they are unable to find the strength within them...
I guess it's not religion itself that's the problem, but too often mankind can interpret things to support their own prejudices or bloodlust. I don't think all Christians do, but of course the ones who get all the press and airtime are the bigmouth radicals and extremists that thumb their nose at anything secular and will do anything to convert evey last human to their rigid ways. Plus, like somebody else said, you don't necessarily need religion to be a good person, and you should not assume al religious folks are good people or all free-thinking or agnostic folk are evil. We humans can have a tendancy to take something good and just screw it up. LOL!
exactly the christian religion has been b*st*rdized beyond belief and is hard to stomach those use it as a manipulative tool...
That is true; the Bible does not advocate free thought generally. Biblical commands are so frequently taken out of context, and people just go on believing that's the way they should be followed, without understanding they were products of the way particular people of a particular culture understood divinity. Christianity in general is about following God and obeying His commandments, which would be all well and good if they were straight-forward and timeless. Unfortunately, they are not, and only educated people who struggle every day to free themselves from bias can actually begin to understand the surrounding culture. That's where trust in authority comes in. Those of us who are less educated for whatever reason regarding religious matters often choose to trust authority of those they see as more educated than themselves (i.e. priests, reverends, pastors ETC), even when their views are radical and illogical. They figure "Father knows best" or some such sentiment. That's how Christian fundamentalism and blind faith come into being. To make matters worse, this often happens to young children, who are most impressionable. They trust those who love and care for them, and if they are not given a chance to examine other beliefs in an unbiased way (as unbiased as humans can be), they are vulnerable to brainwashing of all kinds. Think about the story of Adam and Eve. I'm not much good at interpretting ancient texts, but I interpret the story as saying that God wanted them to be incapable of free thought. If they had no knowledge of good and evil, then they had no concept of morality, and could not choose right from wrong. If they made choices at all, they had no concept of the consequences of those choices (good or evil), which means they would have been very primitive in terms of intelligence. They were punished with the pain of childbirth and hard labor for their quest for knowledge, because they disobeyed G-d. NT theology, especially that of Paul, seems to say that they were also cursed with sin, meaning no human is perfectly righteous. That essentially means that innocent progeny of Adam and Eve were also cursed for something over which they had no control. We now have impulses to sin that we cannot always control. That does not seem just. To remedy this, according to Paul and the Gospels, Jesus came along. Through a masochistic display of cruel suffering, Jesus died to "take away the sins of the world". Of course, that's not literal because we still sin. Nevertheless, this act was supposed to pay the debt for our sins to God. Jesus, the Son of God, paid our debt to His Father, but yet Jesus and God are the same according to some literal Christians. All this talk of blood and debt seems barbaric in comparison to the loving messages of forgiveness and loving correction of sinful behavior.
What really gets me is that there are probably thousands of versions of Christianity out there, and all of them claim that they and only they are the absolute only truth. This includes such alleged truth over at websites like www.godhatesfags.com. That one will get your blood in a boil unless of course you agree with them.
Actually, I know a lot of Christians that say that they're not sure if they're right or wrong, but that they have faith, and respect if I don't, or have faith in something else.
I have no problem with Religion, and I think it's awesome that it brings people together and offers so much hope and stuff. So good on you Kerri for posting this and lettin people discuss this. Maybe some things will get cleared up. I mean i'm not a really religious person but I certainly don't have a problem with it and i wouldn't ever diss someone's religion. Tha'ts just disrespectful.
Caitlin
I don't think any religeon should be downed. After all, how can we as humans know what is truly the "right path"? However, I do have some issues with Christianity. The first being, as has been pointed out, the over welming people who want you to "find Jesus". I'm not just referring to the people you see on TV, but the people who call or knock on my door...I'm mean, let's all think to a recent topic on the boards, "how do you talk to someone about God...". Sound familiar? Why can't we just let people believe how they're comfortable with believing; as long as they are hurting no one? I don't mean by hurting people some Christian way of seeing it, but physical and emotional hurting. That which occurs from rapes and sacrifices...Another issue I take is a belief in an all knowing, all perfect...God. I can't take to someone who is so wonderful allowing the pain of the world. Do you know how many wars have been launched in the name of "God"? Also, there is the priests who harm there dependents. How can any so wonderful God allow someone who claims to follow him to be like that? How can a so wonderful God allow a family who would abuse to have children, and someone who would love that child has none? I've seen this time and time again, however, I'm not saying by any means all people who have children shouldn't. Just that the scales seem to be totally unbalanced. Also, many Christian religions seem not to allow people to question, and if they do they get an answer like, "that's just the way things are", or, "that's the devels fault"...I'm not exagerating...I've looked at different branches of the Christian religion, and wasn't comfortable with any of them...One more thought, what about the facts that science and historians have presented us with? What are the current excuses for these?
I'm observing that it's common to believe, especially when tragedy hits, that things happen because some outside spiritual force, like a deity or devil, makes it so. So mankind can't make events happen on their own? Are strings being pulled and pieces being moved here and there as on a chess board? I guess I'm more of a random chance and cause-and-effect person. So bad things happen because that's life and sometimes people either make unfortunate choices or end up in the wrong place at the wrong time. No, I'm sure it's not a warm and fuzzy thing like hte idea that a deity orchestrates everything, but it's easier for me to understand in my head.
I agree with that, but I've heard so many times..."God knows best".
Earlier I thought religion is nonsense. But, guys, it really can help. It can help you in problems. See, for example: My parents screamed at me two weeks ago. I prayed that they would calm down till I get home (that was a few hours later), and they really calmed down and I felt better. See, it really can give you something to hold on to. This is my opinion.
It's not that I have a problem with Christianity. It's just that I feel that it has been forced on so many people and has ruined so many unique cultures. It was stated above that all religions should not be put down and I totally agree. So why is it that other religions and people of different backrounds have had Christianity forced on them? Let's take the Asian religions for example. Here, you've got religions such as buddhism, daoism, hinduism, and other smaller religions that aren't so well-known. But all of them have a branch of Christianity as well. This creates another devision between people. Those of the same backround won't even associate with those who aren't Christians like themselves and vice versa. I personally think that is really stupid. This doesn't just happen in Asian cultures. I've noticed it in all the races. They are divided in to the church goers and the nonchurch goers.
I can't tell you how many times I have had people come up to me just to say that God will help me see just like themselves if I just "believe." It was really scary! They just grabbed my hand and wouldn't let me go. Imagine that you are walking in a store with your mom who is shy like yourself and having some overbaring person come up and preach the word of God to you. It is not cool!!!
When my brothers and sisters and I were younger, (there were ten of us) there use to be a bus that came to our house to pick us all up to go to church. On the bus, there were other young children but only 2 adults. They got us all to go because they would bribe us with candy. My parents felt that since they gave us candy, we had to go, no questions asked. However, my parents did not go with us. As much as they didn't want us to go, they felt like they had no choice. They did not speak very good english and they felt that there was no use in stopping us from going. Thinking about it now, I feel that I would never let my children go somewhere with some strange person I didn't really know much about. So that is my story about how Christianity has affected my life. I felt all my life like someone was forcing me to believe in something and didn't even give me a chance to choose what I perceived to be right.
*sexy*
I agree MIchelle, it has bgeen forced on others, on me for example, but maybe later on you may just find your religion again, like I did.
I think that is so much of the problem though. If people are religious, that's great! if that's what people want to believe then I have no issue with that, but it's when these people come up and say .. one day maybe you will find religion that I have a problem with it. non believers are, more often than not, happy to be, non believers, and they resent being told that their lives will be that much greater for having found god!
No I just said it because i hope it for you all! But I understand it and i will never force you and I will shut my mouth if you like.
Well, maybe I will find my faith in God someday but right now, I would much rather believe in Chance. Hey!!! Noone answered the question about the scientific theory of how the world began. What are the christian views on it...???
Well even though I believe in god I don't exactly believe in what the bible says. I don't know how the world began, but i somehow can#t believe what the bible says about that.
The Bible says that the world began when God made light, dark, the sea, the animals, etc. I don't think it says how the actual Earth or universe began, but what I just mentioned basically suns up what the Bible says on how the Earth and sky came to be. As for me, I'm a Catholic, but I don't know what to believe in when it comes to that. So many animals look or at least act almost alike but are still a different group of animals. For instance, dogs, wolves, and coyotes are all in the canine family, so they might look similar and have similar habits, but they are still different. So As for the Earth beginning, I think I might believe more in the evolution thing for that, but yet, although I don't have direct proof, I won't say that I don't think the people from the Bible didn't exist. I think they still could've been around at that time and can't think of any reason why all that would be made up. So to me, the evolution part makes sense, but so does the Bible as far as all the people are concerned.
Leilani
I believe the Bible is talking about evolution. Sure it said the whole deal was done in six days and God rested on the seventh day. However, God is an eternal being completely outside of time. A day for him could be thousands or millions of years. Personally, I think that six days is just something that humans can easily grasp. The world evolved with help from God, but the scientists know what they're talking about.
Tinkerbell, I totally agree. I can not believe that everything was made by god in seven days. I believe more in the evolution.
I feel the same way about it for most reasons... sure the religion promotes good love piece wish energy and all that but the direction people (the loudest ones) go with it is totally suicidal, that is believing mindlessly in everything the bible has to say about anything despite it's many contradictions and pointless metaphors. Plus we've killed more people than we have probably saved in "the name of god", and if God loves all what do hardcore christians have against homosexuals? ALso the fact that it seems to dominate is something I don't like.
James
I think this is the point: The bible uses Metaphores. It's not all true, but maybe there is something behind these stories.
hmm... well, I am catholic (or my parents are) but well I think I have no religion, but my problem with christianity is that sometimes people says stuff to you, like, "you will see again if you drink from this water", stuff that is not true at times, and also when something goes wrong then some evil spirit from the underworld is causing all this, then the person goes crazy... well, as for the vible, i get dayly e-mailings describing a bit the word of the lord... and well if you kind of figure it out there are good moral practices you can use in your day by day life. I have or trust no religion yet, but it doesn't mean I am comited to the devil... I just believe in that one that doesn't exist but is there for some reason... and well as for christianity to be forced, i have never encounter such a problem, I don't htink it has been forced on me. I just did choose to be good and well I could right now end up being into drugs, being in crymes, but I just decided what I thought was better for me and well there ya go, I may not believe any religion but I am still good.
But God is not the big cop in the sky like people think He is. No! He is love. And The Bible is true history that God has had many people write. Yes there is violence, but our history is filled with violence! Just look at it and you will see that there have been wars where millions of people have died. There is no exaping war.
That's true.
Another thing I wanted to say about catholics (that's my point of view), is that some of them adore the pope as if he was god himself.
and how many of these wars have been faught in the name of religion.
That is not my point!!! My point is that there is no way to excape violence. Religion, or not, there is going to be problems in this world. That is how God made it. The Bible states clearly, that there is a time for war, a time for peace, a time to cry, a time to weap. A time to sew, a time to reap, a time to love, and a time to hate.
I want to thank you krisme for bringing this topic up. I have become curious why people are so upset with Christians. Thanks for this topic.
One thing that I've noticed is that most non belivers have a diffucult time understanding that we have been commanded to "go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.” Mt 28:19-20. I have a friend who doesn't like missionaries, I've tried to explain that we are called to do this. And always remember "The day of our redemption is drawing near.” Lk. 21:28
KC8PNL, well spoken.
Uh, that wasn't me, that was kc8epa. Watch out. We have 2 kc8's on here now. As far as my problem with Christianity, well, my biggest issue, not with Christians particurally, but with all religions, is when people try to make me believe what they believe. U found God or have accepted Jesus as your savior? Good for u, but that doesn't mean everyone around u has to do the same. The reason why Christians get such a bad rep in western societies is because it's the dominant religion, so it has the most amount of people doing that crap. It's spreading quickly though, just look at the mitionaries all over the place. I mean, think about it. The Christians go in to these poor countries and give the people stuff with the pretense of spreading Christianity. If these missionaries really cared for the people they serve, , which they should, religion wouldn't even be an issue, rather the human condition should be their primary concern. Not whether the recipiants of this aide believe in their God, but do they have enough food to survive the next few days? R they in need of medication? Do their childrin have enough clothing to keep warm? Etc
Sorry.
Krisme, have just read your original post to this topic and the answer is simple in my case...because I don't believe in god, not at all, not one bit. That's the basic reason, there is more to it but don't have time to go into it now. Frey.
I don't have a big problem with christians, but I will say this I tend to learn more from people who lead by example and show how there faith effects there life rather than people who want to run around and shove god down your throat, hit you over the head with the bible, and tell you if you don't do it there way your going to hell! The people who lead by example I can learn a lot more from!
yes why all some people againwst this i want to no!
The Senior Pastor at my church said that if he wants to see how someone has grown in Christ he watches how they walk, not how they talk.
ah yes, I've herd that one before, Listen to them talk and watch there feet!
I like that was, KC8EQA.
Freya, I totally respect that you don'T believe in god, but what's your problem with christians then?
Well you have to separate out having a problem with Christianity vs. having a problem with Christians. Having a problem with Christianity means having a problem with the teachings of the Bible. While the Bible promotes many positive values, it also is very unenlightened and reflects an intolerance of its time period. The lack of respect for homosexuals and the blind is a perfect example of this. While the Bible might promote love, it also teaches intolerance at the same time. You can't blame how people choose to interpret the Bible on the Bible itself.
I think blink makes a valid point, and also that the bible is interpreted according to whichever sector of christianity promotes it. the catholic church for instance takes a different view on the bible to the church of England. #And I think again it's not so much the religion itself but those who preach it. As has been said so so so many times in this topic, if people have a belief, then they are perfectly entitled to that belief, just as long as they don't try and force that belief on to others. Let's take another example. Let's say, I was a vegan. now you all know that is not the case but we'll use me as an example. Let's say, I believe that the exploytation of animals for their meat and bi products is totally inhumane and I refuse to eat or drink anything that has any kind of animal product in it. However, I believe in live and let live, so let's say that you come to my house for dinner. one night. Now, knowing that you are a meat eater, I don't believe in forcing my beliefs on to others, so I prepare you a dish made with meat, even though I am strictly against doing so. That would be me showing respect for the fact you do not share the same beliefs as me. Now lets say I have very strong beliefs, almost extreme. One day, I see you walking down the street eating a hamburger. This enrages me so much because poor innocent animals had to suffer in order for you to be able to have that hamburger, so i walk up to you, snatch the burger out of your hand and throw it on the floor while telling you that you are an evil heartless individual and how could you disregard the plight of a poor innocent animal. that what you're doing is wrong and you should become a vegan at once. now, my second action might lead you to think that vegans are a tad strange and extreme and you would have serious issue with it in future. and it's the same with religious extremists. people just don't want to know if that's not what they believe. for the record, I am not a vegan and only eat things that have parents, *grins*.
it's not so much christians that i have a problem with, it's the way people go about religion as a whole. no matter what religion someone is, there are people who try to force their beliefs onto others, and say that their religion is the right one. that gets on my last nerve, cuz people should respect others beliefs, just as they'd want people to do for there's. another thing that gets me, is when people say homosexuality's wrong. most of the people that say that are going purely off of the bible, and what it preaches. you can make the bible say anything you want it to, but that doesn't mean that's what everyone has to abide by. you can't say homosexuality's wrong, cuz what's considered wrong to you may not be to another. most of the people who say that, are so caught up in what they believe, that they can't respect others beliefs. so, my point is, if there is indeed a god, he loves us all, no matter our sexual orientation. let's face it people, the truth of the matter is, you can't help who you fall in love with, bottom line.
Well I think the homosexuality debate is one perhaps for another topic. However, I don’t necessarily agree that people who are homophobic are necessarily that way because of what is in the bible. After all, look at the types of people who go out beating up homosexuals in gay bars … etc. these type people are very rarely Christian types, they’re normally just generally prejudiced against those that lead a different lifestyle.
Blink183, I have to agree with you. I don'T completely agree with the bible. I rather believe in god but don'T live strictlystuck to the bible.
Forgive me for dredging up a long-dead topic, but I have a few thoughts and would love some feedback. Sometimes I think some folks do not like Christianity because it's too dominant, to the point where other points of view, be they alternative religions or atheist/agnostic points of view can't be heard because they lack power or money. For example, you only see Christian religious programs on TV, or can only get Christian religious magazines in your format of choice, or it is assumed that if you ahve faith in anything or pray to anything, it's Christian. Some of us just cannot get our heads around Christianity or have encountered too many Christians who have too much ugly human still in them and let it show. I also think some folks dislike Christianity because too often you hear about how they want to ban this or legislate against that or censor something else. They remind you of somebody's boring uptight parents that want to say nothing but "no" and throw their weight around, even if they claim it's all for a good reason. They are seen as people who just want to take away everybody's fun and people don't like it when their fun is threatened to be taken away.
I have to agree there, Labyrinth. Also, for some people, Christianity is often related to catholics and pope and old rules which nobody is allowed to change. Some people forget that christianity does not have anything to do with "no sex before marriage" or any other rules of that type. You can believe in god and be a good person and still disobay to these rules Ij ust mentioned.
Ahh, this will make me unpopular....
Yes, you can believe in God, and disobey His commandments, but does that mean you LOVE God? Is God just some genie to come to when times are tough? I'll be honest that I've treated Him as such at times in my life, but what about knowing who God is, rather than simply knowing His works?
Agreed crazy musician. I still do question some stuff in the bible, but I'm learning, and loving it!
I think some people see God as a big Santa Claus in the sky. Ask him for anything and as long as it's not revenge or something he'll say yes. For example, if any Zoners who are blind have run into people who wanted to heal them so they can see, this is that Santa Claus mentality. From stories I've heard, if the blind person is prayed over or whatnot and nothing happens, the blind person ends up being blamed for not having enough faith. It never occurs to these people that God just said no or otherwise had a good reason for the person being blind.
Well crazy_musician, I agree with you, ut it depends on what I think God decided and what the catholic church decided. I don't know ... or do you know ... if God really wants us to have no sex before marriage? Did he say this to anyone? I only mean, you can love god and obay to what he says, but you don't have to obay the church, but believe in your own way. Of course there are things you should or shouldn't do, but I wouldn't stick to churches too much. This is what I meant.
Well, biblicly, it does say to flee sexual immorality, lust, adultery, etc., are considered sinful. I can look up the actual verses if you'd like, Ines.
Okay, you won. Fair enough. But is a person a bad person just when they doN't obay to that "rule", for example?
I think that we need to remember that one's walk with God is going to have high and low points. I said earlier on another topic that we have to be on guard against temptations that can erode our relationship with our significant others. As Christians, we have to be on guard against temptations that pull us from our Creator. The point of leading by example is important and can't be overstated. My own spiritual path has had ups and downs, but it is those who have "walked the walk" who were my reality check moreso than what I call the "rabid born-again Christians" who preach and point fingers.
the bible also talks about pornography. people "laying" with other people, prooving that your daughter is not a virgin at the gate of a town by presenting her hymenal blood on a white cloth. oh yes, and lets not forget incest as well.
oh my god! i actually went over to godhatesfags.com and couldnt believe that this group actually calls themselves christians! those people really make christianity look bad.
I don't like the idea of turn the other cheek, nor of being so humble that you believe yourself to be worth nothing, to be solely dependent on what your god gives you. I'm not saying be hubristic and rude, but free will is a beautiful thing. I also don't like the whole being saved idea or how some people try to force others to be Christian. If that's the path for you, and that's what makes you feel good and whole, then go for it. But don't try to make others feel the same. I don't walk around with the Homeric Hymns and Hesiod's Theogony in my pocket. If someone wants to learn about my religion, I'll share, but I'm not gonna say you're going to Tartaros for not following it. I also don't like the stuff against women and homosexuals that so many Christians preech. For me, love is love, so long as it's between conscenting and mentally competent adults and women should be respected. I know that the ancient Greeks weren't the best towards women, but that's one area where the modern followers have changed. I think, though that the biggest objection I have to Christianity and most monotheistic religions is their monotheism. I've never felt comfortable praying to a single god who's perfect and know everything. And in mainstream Christianity, you have the idea of Jesus, who, supposedly, was born to a virgin and who lived in a human's body but who never sinned, had sex or was completely a man. I could understand if he was a demigod with both divine and human origins, but saying that he was God himself and all of that gives me a headache. Plus, since he never experienced basic human things, how can he understand my problems?
hey tiff. you know, i agree with u 100 percent. christians claim that woman r treated good, but look at all of the junk in the bible. and as for jesus being god himself in human form? hahahahaha. just because us pagans do not accept him as our ahem, "lord and savior," that does not mean we are going to hell. there are many different ways to get to the same place, not just christianity.
I do happen to believe in there being only one God. What I have issue with is Christians, or anyother religion stating it is the best way. Also Jesus was only one profit and most likely had sex, and other things. His adult life is only reported and then he was simply to busy to have a woman in his life. He died at 33. Other profits, moses, David, Mohammad, and the list goes on lived regular lives, sinned, had sex, and the whole thing, but they were given the word to share with all men kind. My favorit is David. He was really a bad dude and had to ask forgiveness all the time. Look at the guys that hung out with Jesus. Really scum actually, but cleaned up, so sure Jesus understood humans, he hung out with the basic kind daily. His favorite female friend, or whatever was a prostatute it seems, so go figure. If God is all powerful, and i believe this to be so, then God would understand that profits had to be sent into different parts of his world, so would cause varying religions, due to language differents and such. Also Christians must relize they were, and are as evil as any other religion groups when it comes to inforcing their beliefs. Be Christian, but do not assume your religion is the last word on all things. If you are truly following your rules, then love, compassion, and understanding are suppose to be the way not the sword so to speak.
well said for real. i think also, each prophet came at different times. so if a new prophet comes according to the times, update your old fassioned thinking that judiism or christianity or islam is the only way. get with the times folks.
oh and tiff. alot of christians will not believe me, perhaps even bash me for saying this, but christianity is technically a polytheistic religion. even though they say they r monotheistic, they r not. look at what they say about god. god the father, god the son, and god the holy spirit. they also claim that jesus will be sitting at the right hand of god. hmmmm, sounds like you christians believe in 3 gods instead of one. and don't give me this 3 gods in one stuff either. 3 gods is 3 gods, no matter how you look at it.
the way I see it is this. My real problem with *some* Christians, not all! but some of them is how they yell and scream about how the Lord loves them. or how Jesus loves them. Well, Jesus and the lord both love me too but you don't see me running around on here constantly trying to tell people how to act, what music to listen to, what tv shows to watch, what books to read, etc. I figure people are gonna do what they're gonna do no matter whatI say. I may be able to help them and ask them to pray when they're having a difficult time and when things are good, yell all kinds of praises to the lord and say thank you. But some of these Christians just absolutely love to shove their religion down other people's throats. I think that's wrong to do, because obviously there are other religions, even if Christians think they're wrong or have problems with how it's all supposed to go. I can tell you guys all one thing, and that as long as I'm around I'll never shove any of my religious beliefs on anyone. I might look at this a little differently and quite opposite to some Christians. But my time with God is very private to me and I think of it as sitting down with a good friend, talking about life and experiences and I look to him for guidence when things are tough. He's not some big guy up there in the sky. God, to me, is what feelings you have in your heart when you do nice things for others...when you help your fellow man along in some way, or if he's hungry, you help him out and give him something to eat. I could keep going but I think you guys get it. I have my beliefs and if you wanna know i'll tell you, but i'll tell you what I believe and let you decide for yourself. I'm here to spread goodness and cheer and to make people feel good, not to say if you don't do what i do or feel like I fell, you'll fry in hell. That's just wrong.
woooooo! gives tune head a friendly slap on the back. well said my man!
Well, thanks. I'm sure a lot of people don't know what to do with me, and I sometimes have a sense of humor that is a bit, well, twisted. But I know what I believe and I don't need a screen name on here to tell you any of that, or to shove my religious beliefs at other folks. I got no problems with anyone saying they believe in or love God, but it should show in your actions...let the actions do the talking y'all. Just be a good person, help others when necessary and it'll all fall into place.
To Krisme,(sorry if that's not spelled correctly), great topic! For one thing, thanks for defending your Catholic faith. I am Lutheran, and am very interested in Catholicism. I get really annoyed when people blame the Pope or the Catholic church for all the evils of the world. For those of you who think the Catholic church is evil because of it's unpopular stances on abortion, homosexuality or premarital sex need to wake up. For one thing, the Catholic church didn't make up these positions to make life miserable. The Bible says that if one loves the Lord, he will keep the commandments. so the Catholic church is merely echoing the Bible on these points. Also, the Catholic church and my own Lutheran church believe that God and his commandments do not change over time. Just because premarital sex is more common, doesn't make it acceptable to many Chrisians. As for being judgmental, I know for myself, I don't believe those who engage in premarital sex to be bad people. Christ after all, came to save the sinners not the righteous. I don't believe religion is bad. In fact, as a Sociology major, I believe it performs several functions for society. A sense of identity, a moral base and a sense of community among them. I don't think religion is the problem, I think it's people who misuse their respective religions that's the problem. I agree with other posters who say that there's always going to be violence. As far as conversion goes, Christians believe that it isnot a person who converts a person to Christianity but the Holy Spirit. That doesn't mean that there aren't some overzealous Christians out there. I believe that Christianity is the only true religion. But I do find elements of truth in all religions. I don't have a problem with people thinking their religion is true unless they are judgemental. As Christians we're warned by the Bible not to judge others. I'd like to point out that there's a difference between disagreeing with something somebody does and judging where you think they'll spend eternity. As Christians we're to help others follow a moral path. However, we should do this in a loving way. I do believe strongly in leading by example. That is why I try to put my Christian values into practice. I have friends of all faiths and considder myself to be a tolerant person. If my beliefs seem unpopular, Well, too bad. Christ never said following him would be easy. Quite the opposite in fact. Well, I love discussing religion. So if anyone wants to discuss anything with me privately, plese feel free to write me.
Here, let me clear somethings up. Again, like I said in another thread here, you all got to stop generalizing. It's not about right to do. So, the problem is there is a lot of us regular Christians, and there's extremests. There is lots of them in many religions, yes? So, why slobber all over Christians and only Christians? Most of these complaints are about extremests. I want to clear some personal things with some people though.
Sam, that’s the bible, and it’s old. They probably didn’t treat women right back then, but now it’s all good. No god is playing three roles, yet is one person. Such as your father is your dad, a babysitter, and a doctor.
Real: get it right, Jesus died at 36
actually i was told that he did indeed die at 33.
In response to post 68, the Catholic church made up these stances to oppress certain groups of people and to keep a better hold on others. Also, to wipe out any traces of paganism. Am I saying that Catholics today have the same agenda? Mostly no. Most have no idea and really believe as you do that this is right or that this is why The Church believes this way. Others don't follow the beliefs as strictly and have formed their own opinions. But I think the interpreters of the Bible definitely had things in mind as did/do those in power who use it as a means of control. These interpreters also chose to ignore alot of texts that didn't fit within the views of the cannon. As a religious person and one with a BA in sociology, I too believe that religion is a good thing and has many benefits. I just have a problem with it being used to brainwash people and not let them think for themselves. Btw, that wasn't directed towards any particular group, since most religions, including my own, could be used to that end. Posts 69 and 70 interested me over the age thing and also over the question of the treatment of women. That's something that people in my religion are always asked. They say "how could you follow a religion that had slavery and subjugation of women" and so on. The answer is that modern followers of Hellenic Polytheism no longer follow such ideas. I think an important thing to remember is that most sacred texts, regardless of the religion, carry an imprint of the time in which they were written. It can't be helped. The trick is to balance these ideas with modern ones without compromising the faith.
Tiffanitsa, I have a question about what you wrote in your last post here. I’ve got a B.S. in Sociology, and am very involved in my religion also, so we do have some things in common, even if our views here differ somewhat.
You wrote, “an important thing to remember is that most sacred texts, regardless of the religion, carry an imprint of the time in which they were written. It can't be helped. The trick is to balance these ideas with modern ones without compromising the faith.”
This may actually be more of a rhetorical question to everyone rather than a specific question just to you, but what you wrote mayde me wonder something.
If we Christians, and I’m not referring to extremists that all religions seem to have, are trying to live our lives in a modern society without compromising our faith, why do we receive so much grief from other people. I haven’t gone back and re-read all that has been written here, but from what I remember, the things that most people have griped about are quite fundamental to our faith. Are we supposed to change with the times, thus compromising our beliefs, or maintain our faith and live with the criticisms?
It seems the solution according to most of the people who have posted here is to do the former, not the latter. Do people really expect us to water down our beliefs so they fit in with modern thought? If so, and in a hundred years, society changes and polygamy, for example, comes into fashion, are we to change again? I guess what I‘m asking is where do non-Christians expect us to draw the line. If that line should be set, and modern thought changes, then are we to reset that line again as society dictates?
Is it a mistake for me as an agnostic to hold Christians up to a higher standard than the rest of the common slobs in the world? I will agree with the Toonhead. It's not about how many souls you win to heaven in your life or how much of the Bible you can spout strictly from memory or how many people you pray for or how often. To me, it's about how you treat people overall that matters. Do you stick up for the underdog when others might kick them around? Do you talk to people that most others would pass by and ignore? Do you accept and appreciate people that others might think are nothing but geeks and weirdos? Do you go along with the herd to keep your friends, or do you risk your friendships by showing you're better than the rest of the herd by not buying into all the brutality and other assorted ugliness the herd justifies? That's what I think it's all about. How about you?
Are you asking me personally, or Christians in general? The answer for me is yes, I do try to accept all people on an individual basis. I’ve worked personally with the downcast and the outcast of society, no strings attached. The last part of your post should be obvious since I’m not going along with the herd here. I’m standing for my beliefs regardless of the criticism from the rest of the herd.
Thanks for responding. I was actually asking anyone who read my post and wanted to chime in.
To answer the question that was asked of me, I think it's more about acceptance and understanding than changing your beliefs. For instance, you may not agree with polygamy, but that doesn't mean you should go and preech against it to those who practise it. I'm not saying don't offer your opinion, but realise when you need to give the person his/her space. These are, as you've stated, mostly the extremist groups. for the regular Christians, I see no problems with you. You keep to yourselves and are generally respectful towards others. How you deal with changing times and opinions is a matter best left to those in the faith to decide... not necessarily the higherarchy, but those who follow it. I can't tell you what to believe. It's what you do with those beliefs that involves the world that concern us nonChristians.
As for the last question about helping others etc, it seems that that's what it's all about to me too. Religion can be used negatively, as we've all demonstrated, but it can also be a positive force. for me, if you can use your faith to help others, not by actively trying to convert but just by being there and offering whatever help is appropriate, that's a very good thing and should be encouraged. Whatever inspires you to go out there and make a difference is good.
As far as interpretting the Bible, it's not the Catholic church that decided on the interpretation and the books of the Cannon. Catholics, Eastern Orthodox and other Christians believe in Divine revelation. So, if books are excluded from the cannon, it's probably due to historical inaccuracy. After all. Am I supposed to believe that my mp3 player manual is sacred cause some nutjob told me it was? No! Why is it that nonChristians seem to know what books of the Bible are Divine? Most Christians or another religious people don't seem to spend a lot of time mulling over where their sacred texts came from. I don't hear anyone slamming the Bhagavad Ghita for it's accuracy or interpretation. If one has issues with the Bible, read about sacred tradition, both Catholic/Orthodox. This might provide some insight into just exactly what books were left out of the Cannon and why. If it was one person taking issues with the excluded books I can understand some confussion. But hundreds of years were devoted to the issue. I'd rather spend my time putting my Christianity into practice from the Scriptures I do have than worrying about other books that aren't in there to begin with. I will try to live my life as a faithful Christian, and leave the judgment to God. This doesn't mean I'm going to compromise my standards. Every religion has made mistakes. All we can do is try to be the best people we can.